Lists

7 things veterans are sick of hearing from civilians

Most of the time, people have the best intentions when they're talking to a veteran.


"By and large, at this stage in history, the American people are very, very supportive of veterans," Brandon Trama, a former US Army Special Operations Detachment Commander, CivCom grad, and associate at Castleton Commodities International, told Business Insider.

Indeed, according to Gallup, the majority of civilians view each of the five branches either very or somewhat favorably.

Also Read: The 13 funniest Veterans Day memes for 2017

"I've encountered numerous people when I transitioned who were willing to help me out, whether it was buy me a cup of coffee, give me thoughts on their career path, or put me in front of other people who may be able to point me in the direction of other opportunities," Trama said.

But, according to the Pew Research Center, fewer Americans now have family ties to those who served.

And despite the good intentions of many civilians, there's still a growing gap between the military and civilian worlds. So it's important for civilians to remember that there's a difference between reverence and understanding.

Business Insider spoke with veterans from several different branches of the military about transitioning back to civilian careers.

Here's what they said they wished civilians would understand — and, in some cases, refrain from saying:

7. 'We all owe you'

The military is widely held in esteem in the U.S. A whopping 72% of Americans have confidence in the institution, according to Gallup — compare that with the 16% of folks who have confidence in Congress.

But quite a few of the veterans Business Insider spoke with asserted that well-intentioned adulation can go too far.

Some advised civilians against overdoing it when thanking veterans for their service. These veterans also warned fellow ex-service members from letting any praise go to their heads.

"Stop thinking people owe you something," Omari Broussard, who spent 20 years in the Navy, told Business Insider. "Nobody owes you anything."

The New York Times reported that some veterans view being thanked for their service as "shallow, disconnected, a reflexive offering from people who, while meaning well, have no clue what soldiers did over there or what motivated them to go."

According to Broussard, it's best for veterans — especially those who recently left the service — to not take the praise to heart, especially at work.

"When you get out, you've got to compete with the best," the founder of counter-ambush training class 10X Defense and author of "Immediate Action Marketing" said. "Go get it. That may require you doing a lot more work than you think you need to do."

6. 'Do you have any friends that died?'

Probing and ill-advised questions from civilians can make many veterans feel dehumanized and othered.

"People will ask me plainly, 'Do you have any friends that died?'" Garrett Unclebach, who served as a Navy SEAL for six years, told Business Insider. "And then the second question they'll ask me is, 'You ever kill anybody?' Two super inappropriate questions to ask people."

Unclebach said people should remember they don't necessarily have a full grasp on the issues an individual veteran is facing.

"People talk about PTSD and they don't really understand it so I would tell you that some guys who have it are embarrassed by it," the VP of business development at construction firm Bellator Construction said. "Everyone needs an opportunity to be human and be vulnerable."

5. 'I don't really understand how your ability to go fight is going to add value to my organization'

Edelman Intelligence's study of 1,000 employers found that 76% want to hire more veterans — but only 38% said veterans obtain skills in the military that "are easily transferable to the private or public sector."

Phil Gilreath, who served as a Marine officer for nearly 10 years, said this is a potential "stigma" veterans face in the business world.

"In reality, over 95% of what we do is kind of planning and operations and logistics," he told Business Insider. "That absolutely translates to the corporate world, not to mention the things that aren't necessarily quantitative, such as your leadership experience, your ability to operate in a dynamic, stressful environment that's ever-changing."

Gilreath is now director of operations at storage space startup Clutter and was previously a fellow at the Honor Foundation, a group that specifically helps Navy SEALs transition to civilian life.

He said veterans must enter the civilian world prepared to explain and demonstrate how exactly their skills cross over.

Evan Roth, an HBX CORe alum and former US Air Force captain who now works for GE Aviation, agrees.

"Not only does this involve creating a résumé that has readable — no strange acronyms — skill sets and experience, but also learning how to talk to companies in a way that demonstrates value," Roth said. "Many members never practice how to give a 15-second 'elevator pitch' about how they can be valuable to a company, or in an interview they'll tell a three minute 'war story' without tying it back to how this could be useful in the civilian world."

4. 'What the heck are you talking about?'

Many branches of the military rely upon specific jargon and acronyms to get things done.

Randy Kelley, who served as a Navy SEAL sniper for 11 years, said this means things can get lost in translation for recent veterans.

"Just like in any other cross-cultural situation, it's going to create a little bit of animosity, and create the division that sometimes can actually hurt the military guy," the founder of wellness startup Dasein Institute told Business Insider. "They have to stop speaking to civilians like they understand what a PRT is. All these different things that were important to them in their last career are no longer relevant."

Read Also: These 14 expert tips will help you nail your military transition

He said it's best for veterans to drop such phraseology in a civilian setting, and for civilian employers to understand where veterans are coming from.

"Veterans have to take the time to learn the jargon of the new environment and drop military acronyms," Kayla Williams, a US army veteran who now works as the director of the Center for Women Veterans at the Department of Veterans Affairs, told Business Insider.

But, in the case of recent vets, it's better to be understanding and ask for clarification, rather than just writing someone off because they're still relying upon a military style of communications.

3. 'You must want to go back into security-related work'

 

My face when I realized I was a "veteran," for real.

Not all veterans automatically want to work for a defense contractor.

James Byrne, who served as a US Navy SEAL officer for 26 years, said it's important not to encourage veterans to "mentally lock themselves into the belief" that their skills only transfer to security-related industry.

When he first returned to civilian work, he said some well-intentioned civilians encouraged him to pursue a gig as a security guard at Walmart — simply because they couldn't envision his abilities translating elsewhere. Today, he's the director of sales and business development at solar tech company Envision Solar

"The sky's the limit," he told Business Insider. "You're only stopped by your imagination of what you can do and what you can work with your network and yourself and your education and your soft skills and hard skills. There's no limit to what you can do and how you can do it."

2. 'You must be glad to be back'

How did she even see him?

The process of leaving the military can be disorienting for some veterans. It's patronizing to assume someone is in a better place just because they're no longer in the service.

Former US Marine Corps rifleman and Victor App founder Greg Jumes told Business Insider he struggled with addiction and lived out of his car for a time after he left the military.

"When you get out, you're surrounded by a group of people and you don't know what the hell their deal is," he said. "You just kind of feel all over the place and that kind of brings you back into a state of isolation."

He said it's crucial for military servicemembers interested in leaving to plan ahead.

"You have to plan," he said. "You have to find where you should be moving to. You have to start networking before you get out."

1. 'You must have gone through so much'

Never assume you have an idea of what a veteran's experience was like.

"The narrative that has been established for returning veterans has been unhelpful," retired Green Beret Scott Mann, who served in the Army for 23 years, told Business Insider. "The narrative has been 'the island of misfit toys.' We're broken."

Today, Mann runs a leadership training organization MannUp and the Heroes Journey, a non-profit devoted to helping veterans transition. He said it's harmful to have a perception of veterans as "damaged goods."

"That could not be further from the truth, in most cases," he said. "There are cases where some people need care for the rest of their lives. Most of the veteran population are high functioning and we actually need them in our communities and businesses leading in the front, putting those skills into play."

Remember, there's a ton of diversity when it comes to the experiences military servicemembers have across the five branches — and even within those branches.

"What I did in the Navy is probably unlike with the other 99% of people did in the Navy," Charles Mantranga, Navy veteran and implementation manager at tech firm Exitus Technologies, told Business Insider. "It's pretty hard for people to understand it, really."

History

This pilot shot down an enemy fighter at Pearl Harbor in his pajamas

Comfort is important when doing a hard job. If it's hot on the work site, it's important to stay cool. If it's hazardous, proper protection needs to be worn. And comfort is apparently key when the Japanese sneak attack the Navy. Just ask Lt. Phil Rasmussen, who was one of four pilots who managed to get off the ground to fight the Japanese in the air.

Rasmussen, like many other American GIs in Hawaii that day, was still asleep when the Japanese launched the attack at 0755. The Army Air Forces 2nd Lieutenant was still groggy and in his pajamas when the attacking wave of enemy fighters swarmed Wheeler Field and destroyed many of the Army's aircraft on the ground.

Damaged aircraft on Hickam Field, Hawaii, after the surprise Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

There were still a number of outdated Curtiss P-36A Hawk fighters that were relatively untouched by the attack. Lieutenant Rasmussen strapped on a .45 pistol and ran out to the flightline, still in his pajamas, determined to meet the sucker-punching Japanese onslaught.

By the time the attack ended, Wheeler and Hickam Fields were both devastated. Bellows Field also took a lot of damage, its living quarters, mess halls, and chapels strafed by Japanese Zeros. American troops threw back everything they could muster – from anti-aircraft guns to their sidearms. But Rasmussen and a handful of other daring American pilots managed to get in the air, ready to take the fight right back to Japan in the Hawks if they had to. They took off under fire, but were still airborne.

Pearl Harbor pilots Harry Brown, Phil Rasmussen, Ken Taylor, George Welch, and Lewis Sanders.

They made it as far as Kaneohe Bay.

The four brave pilots were led by radio to Kaneohe, where they engaged 11 enemy fighters in a vicious dogfight. Even in his obsolete old fighter, Rasmussen proved that technology is no match for good ol' martial skills and courage under fire. He managed to shoot down one of the 11, but was double-teamed by two attacking Zeros.

Gunfire and 20mm shells shattered his canopy, destroyed his radio, and took out his hydraulic lines and rudder cables. He was forced out of the fighting, escaping into nearby clouds and making his way back to Wheeler Field. When he landed, he did it without brakes, a rudder, or a tailwheel.

There were 500 bullet holes in the P-36A's fuselage.

Skillz.

Lieutenant Rasmussen earned the Silver Star for his boldness and would survive the war, getting his second kill in 1943. He retired from the U.S. Air Force in 1965, but will live on in the Museum of the United States Air Force, forever immortalized as he hops into an outdated aircraft in his pajamas.

(U.S. Air Force photo)

Articles

This Microsoft training fast tracks veterans into sweet tech careers

Solaire Brown (formerly Sanderson) was a happy, gung-ho Marine sergeant deployed in Afghanistan when she realized her military career was about to change. She was tasked with finding the right fit for her post-military life – and she knew she wanted to be prepared.

Injuries sustained during mine-resistant vehicle training had led to surgeries and functional recovery and it became clear Brown would no longer be able to operate at the level she expected of herself as a Marine.

Like many of the 200,000 service members exiting the military each year, Brown knew her military training could make her a valuable asset as an employee, but she was unsure of how her skills might specifically translate to employment in the civilian world.

Enter Microsoft Software & Systems Academy (MSSA), a program Microsoft started in 2013 to provide transitioning service members and veterans with critical career skills required for today's growing technology industry.

Keep reading... Show less
GEAR & TECH
Dave Smith

This video of a drone with a flamethrower will haunt your dreams

Watch the video in the tweet below. Are you experiencing both amazement and fear? You're not alone.

This video has been making the rounds on Twitter recently, but it was actually filmed a little over a year ago. According to Gizmodo, an electric-power maintenance company in Xiangyang, China, had been using these flame-throwing drones to burn off garbage and debris from electrical wires.

Keep reading... Show less
Articles

This band hires vets — especially when they go on tour

As veterans re-enter the civilian workforce, many struggle to make the transition. This is why opportunities (ahem — touring with famous heavy metal bands) for employment are so important. Five Finger Death Punch has made it a mission to offer such opportunities.

Keep reading... Show less
History

5 of the dumbest reasons people went to war

"War is a male activity. Organized fighting and killing by groups of women against other groups of women has simply not existed at any point in human history."

That's a powerful observation from evolutionary social psychologist Frank T. McAndrew Ph.D., whose writings on the psychology of going to war propose that men evolved to be more aggressive in order to compete for female mates.

The story of Helen's face launching a thousand ships comes to mind.

helen of troyShe made her choice. Get over it.

Giphy

Keep reading... Show less

How to get your own free 'Space Force' ringtone

If you're in the military or are a veteran and haven't heard about the Space Force yet, it's time to climb out from under that rock you've been living in. There's a sixth branch of the U.S. military now, and it's going to be a department of the Air Force.

The men's department.

Although the Air Force has released very limited guidance on what the new branch will do, how it will roll out, or basically anything at all except that it's called the 'Space Force' and will exist one day, the excitement the idea of a space force brings the military community is palpable.

Judged solely by the sheer volume of Space Force memes.

Also Read: 5 boring details a Space Force private will get stuck on

So if you're excited to do your part, you can fully engulf yourself in the burgeoning Space Force culture, you can now enjoy the first Space Force song, sure to be shouted at the top of many a Spaceman's lungs every morning during Space-ic Training.

This songified version of President Trump's Space Force announcement was created by The Gregory Brothers, whose YouTube page is packed with pop culture songification. Due to the popular demand for the song to be made into a ringtone via the popular Air Force Facebook page Air Force amn/nco/snco, the Gregory Brothers responded immediately.

Thanks Air Force amn/nco/snco.

Check out: Why the name of the space-based branch should be Space Corps

Good luck getting this song out of your head now that it goes off every time your mom or dad calls you. You can get your free Space Force ringtone from The Gregory Brothers at their Patreon page.

5 ways marksmanship simulations can improve your fire teams

The fire team is the most important unit of the Marine Corps' infantry. The Corps is always looking for new ways to make its fire teams more effective on the battlefield. From equipment upgrades to weapon replacements, there's always room for improvement. But one thing they have yet to figure out is what Marines at the lowest levels can do during their free time. Well, why not reserve some time at the Indoor Simulated Marksmanship Trainer?

At the bottom of the Marine Corps task organization is the four-person fire team and they are, by far, the most critical asset in the entire hierarchy. The more lethal each individual team, the more lethal the unit as a whole and the ISMIT gives troops the opportunity to practice their shooting skills without firing real bullets on a live range. It's like playing Nintendo Duck Hunt with military guns and honestly, it puts a lot of current virtual reality gaming to shame with its fun factor.

But beneath that, there's a deeper level of training value that can make a unit much more effective and especially more lethal, given the right prompt and simulation.

Here are some ways the ISMIT can improve your unit at the fire team level:

Keep reading... Show less
Gaming

6 operators from Rainbow Six that would be awesome in real life

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege is one of the most entertaining games online for the military community. It takes a much more grounded approach to game-play that isn't seen in most games. Players must actually think about the objective and every way to approach it in order to win.

Each match pits a group of five players against another team of five to either defend or attack a position. Unlike most online shooters, you choose an operator to play that comes with their own special ability that either aids the team or hinders the enemy.

Some operators have a very real (but kinda lame) ability like having a regular old thermal scope or just having a sledgehammer. Other abilities were kind of made solely for the game and would be kinda pointless in actual combat, like a loud flying drone. But looking at their load-out, some operators would do a hell of a job in an actual scenario.

Keep reading... Show less